Πηγή: Arny and Amy Mindell’s Website
The Relationship between the Helper and the Client and What is Healing?
Interview with Arny Mindell
interviewed by Tamara Scarlett-Lyon
How do you define “healing”?
I don’t use the word in therapy because I don’t consider people to be sick. But people say they are. In consensus reality when people have body symptoms they feel something is wrong. So if something hurts I will address the Consensus Reality symptoms or issues. In CR, healing is when the person can say, “I don’t like what is happening but am learning to get along with it”. Nobody was interested in my approach about this stuff at first! Almost everyone doesn’t like some of what is happening to them and wants to get rid of their pains and symptoms so I will try and do what I can- I’ll try anything at the CR level, but if that doesn’t work I help people go deeper.
Are you a healer?
Yes and no. Yes, if it means saying about a symptom, “this is me” along with all the other parts I like and the parts I don’t like in myself. I identify as being “someone who follows nature”.
What attitudes/qualities in a client or facilitator are conducive to healing?
Anybody’s attitude is conducive. Whatever a person says provides the right condition. For example, a woman I once worked with had a brain tumor but she was not interested in getting rid of it. She said, “I am sick, dying and hate my kids.” So I worked with her on her relationships with her kids. Afterward her head felt better and she needed less medication and was less groggy. She had a “bad” attitude yet her symptoms improved. As facilitator I feel it important to notice what you hate and like about yourself and make note of it. AWARENESS is key. With awareness you are a little bit better off.
How do we develop awareness?
By supporting yourself and others in doing it! Ask yourself and others, “what are you noticing right now?” We also seem made to program ourselves to do this thing or that (he giggles and chuckles as he says this)! (Tam’s note- in other words, yes, we can develop awareness, but there is also something in us that can easily follow habits which makes it difficult at times to be aware) “There is only 1 disease and it is ‘not noticing'”.
What do you see as your role when you work with others?
To notice what is happening with myself and the other person. Also, my role varies- sometimes I am a relationship counselor, sometimes I help people die. But “getting along with process” is what I tend to help people with.
How do you know when something you notice is “yours” rather than the client’s “stuff” or issues?
Awareness that nothing is just mine or just theirs (in the realm of non-locality) is important, but I rely on feedback- it is only just “me” or my stuff in the moment if I bring up something and get no reaction from the other person. But if I say something and the person’s face lights up, or they breathe deeply, or they say yes, then it is also theirs. At this point it really doesn’t matter if it is mine or who’s it is- as long as the person is feeling better!
Do you believe in miracles?
I don’t believe in them, I SEE them. A miracle is something helpful that happens beyond the every day mind’s understanding. The Process Mind allows stuff to happen. Some may call it, “divine intervention”. A day without at least 1 miracle is a bad day!
Do you believe in spirits or other non-consensus reality based entities?
Sometimes. When working with people who hold those types of belief systems I also often feel or see spirits or things like that in the atmosphere. Is it my fantasy? Yes, but I also sometimes bring in what I see and ask people if what I am noticing is significant for them. For example- I worked once with someone and became aware of “Uncle Fritz” so I asked the client if he knew an Uncle Fritz and the man said, yes, his Uncle fritz had died 4 months ago. Another example- I had a sort of fantasy where I saw a sort of fog going by that reminded me of my mother (who died some yrs ago), and so I talked to the fog as if it was her. I follow the moment.
How do you deal with ego or rank in relation to others?
If I go to a doctor and my doctor has too much rankfulness, I don’t feel well- like it’s not my own body any more. In my practice some people who don’t know me may come because of my reputation and say, “I have a problem, what should I do?” I don’t participate in this because I feel the person is in danger of giving his or her Self away. Instead I say we are going to follow what your body tells us to do. Their body is the director. If there is a relationship issue between me and the other person, I will address it, otherwise I just follow what is happening. This approach borders on political action and community consciousness. For me, political action requires rank consciousness and respect for the other and myself. Community consciousness occurs when all its parts and feelings are in our awareness. Thus, body problems and therapy in general are places to learn about politics and community.
Do you feel any edges around charging money for your services?
My feelings vary depending on the person. I used to think of it like I was similar to a carpenter- if a carpenter does something for you, you pay him. This is in the background. If someone does something for you, you pay them in some way. However, the 1st time I see people I can’t charge them due to an agreement I made with my 1st therapist. When I first went for therapy I had no money to pay. The therapist agreed to see me if I agreed to never charge others for the 1st session as a sort of repayment to my teacher. I see a lot of people only 1 time and so I do a lot of “free” sessions!
Can you mention any of your most wonderful healers?
The Kenyan shamans who worked with us were totally authentic. They gave us a big hug, and the community gave hugs, and the experience was integrated into their whole community. The shamans went into trance, came out and delivered helpful information to us. The only part I disagreed with was when they asked if Amy and I wanted protection. I said no. I don’t want to be protected. I don’t want protection from my enemy- I want relationship with everybody! I don’t want to hurt my enemies. I love people. To “heal me” you have to help me and others with our relationships.